Can Company Mission Compete With a $100 Million Paycheck?

Matt: [00:00:00] All righty, everybody. This is another edition of the web news, and this comes to us from the AI Weekly, uh, website here. I will link this, of course, in the, uh, show notes on htmlallthethings.com. But we're not taking this whole sort of newsletter or this whole blog post here. We're just taking one sentence of the TLDR 'cause we just wanna talk about, uh, the idea of it, and I'm just gonna read this to you.

It says here, "Anthropic CEO, uh, Dario Amodei told colleagues he worries new hires are joining for the paycheck rather than the safety mission, according to Axios." Yeah, they, they are usually, uh, doing that. Um, I mean, this stems, I think, a lot from w- we have a, we have a problem. We have, we... There's a cost of living problem, I think. Uh, in many places obviously varying economies, varying cost of living issues or maybe no issue at all in some places. But I know that here in Canada we have some major issues.

We've got lots of people that are, you know, flat [00:01:00] broke, lots of people not saving for retirement, lots of people not being able to get housing, lots of people having lots and lots of issues, many people working several jobs and still struggling to make ends meet. Now, you could take that and turn it on its head and say that it's almost a Caleb Hammer moment where w- people aren't managing their finances correctly, they're spending foolishly, et cetera, et cetera.

I certainly see that among some friends. I also s- I also see the exact opposite of that among some friends where people are being extremely frugal. So some are very frugal, some are spending like crazy. And the frugal ones sometimes are not getting the sort of normal stuff in life, and if... or if they do, they, they struggle every month to pay that mortgage or that rent or whatever it is, and it's a, it's a serious issue.

I also would like to say, one other thing is that this also I think stems from school. in school, high school, they keep saying, "Oh, get a good job so you can get a good paycheck, get a good job so you can get a good paycheck." I don't recall at any point [00:02:00] in my schooling did they ever say, "Get a good job so you can ensure that you're e- enhancing shareholder value or that you're joining a company for a specific mission."

Now, obviously some companies have specific missions that people are gonna get behind, maybe like a, a, a cancer charity research or something like that, and there's various other m- things. It doesn't have to be a charity. Various other out there. And some people are gonna really, really attach themselves to a particular mission, and they're gonna, they're gonna run with it, and th- that's gonna be their passion and that's gonna be their thing.

But throughout school, high school and then into post-secondary, it was all about the money. It was always... Even if you looked in the brochure saying, who go to this college and take this course oftentimes get hired at this annual salary." Says it right there. It says it in the advertisement for the individual courses and programs that we take.

And so of course new hires be going after a paycheck, I mean, of course, to the cost of [00:03:00] living issues in many places but also due to the fact that we've been kind of trained to do that. And I don't necessarily even think that that's, that's wrong either. I don't think it's, it's wrong to say you're chasing the bag and trying to ensure that you and/or your family is gonna be economically sound.

Even if you wanna quote unquote "waste all your money on video games" or something else, you want that, so you're gonna chase that, right?

Mikhail: So yes, um, you, you, we need money to survive. That's mainly the case of why people take jobs for money, and that's how the job market works. I think Amadei, Dario Amadei, is f- maybe getting frustrated because the current AI market is very competitive right now for salaries. So there's, you know, certain [00:04:00] expert, experts out there are sought after, and because of that, they're demanding very high salaries.

And so his frustration comes out as like w- wouldn't, like, wouldn't you wanna take a lower salary, like not $100 million, but $50 million a year to work for Anthropic, who is safety-oriented, versus Grok, who is maybe not as safety-orient- oriented, or SpaceX as safety-oriented? Uh, because you're, like, that's your mission, and that's your, you know... But no, like, like that, you know, AI engineer might not wanna do that, and so he's frustrated in that sense.

Matt: Well, can I,

Mikhail: that that's where he's coming from. I'm not sure

Matt: can I, can I come in with just a hot take? 'Cause, like, we, we could research this statement or whatever. Like, we just kinda wanted to, like, discuss this. Not in a capitalist system, no. You're not gonna ... You're, you're gonna chase the bag. There's going to be s- exceptions to you chasing the bag.

There's gonna be exceptions to people chasing it. [00:05:00] There's gonna be some people that just say, "This salary is enough for me," and they're gonna, they're gonna stick with it. Maybe they wanna work with their, where their friends work. Maybe they like the, the work-life balance. Maybe they like the culture there.

Sure, granted. There's many, many factors at play. foundational, maybe even the foundation of capitalism is money

I mean, like, oh yeah, just take a hit in the stock market. Don't worry about it. Why? would I do that? Why wouldn't I just sell this stock and then go to that other stock if I know I'm gonna take a hit now?

Mikhail: Yeah. I, like I, I am of that mindset. Like you're-- y- if we, if we equate it back to professional sports, this is a very common argument in professional sports is like why don't you take a little bit less money so you can, professional sports with a salary cap I should say, you take less money so that you can build the team better.

And some, some like a small handful of players do that, like really high, highly talented players do that, where they take a couple less million so that they can, you know, hire one more forward or something [00:06:00] like that that can help them. Um, a majority of them don't because like they all realize that they have a certain amount of time, a certain amount of time to make their money.

And yes, it's a lot of money, but you know, they're in this bubble of everyone else making a lot of money, so they're, they're not looking at like the person that's not in a professional sport, like the salary worker that's making 70K a year. They're not comparing themselves to that. They're comparing themselves to the other generational player that's making $10 million or $50 million.

Matt: Right

Mikhail: why wouldn't I make that if I ma- if I do the same thing as them?" This is where the disconnect from the public comes in, and I think this is where the disconnect from Dario is coming in as well, where like he's trying to this like mission-oriented approach out there, and he's confused as to why people aren't going there.

But the reality is is that like, yeah, you, you can't-- Maybe you can put like some monetary value on the mission for some engineers. Like maybe there's like a [00:07:00] $5 million, like so- some of these people are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money by the way. Like this is, this is, this is very much not like a web developer conversation here.

This, like this, this is very much talking about these massively overhired, over, over, uh, paid people that are making it-- I mean, I think Facebook had one where it was like $100 million or something. Like so- something ridiculous. Some of them probably are making like lower seven fig- or lower six fig- or lower seven figures, high six figures.

Still a lot of money.

Matt: Well, if you, if you look here,

Mikhail: yeah.

Matt: you look here, like I'll, I'll just give a little bit more context 'cause I think maybe we need it here. Um, so there's, there's... I, I pulled it up on the screen if you're watching the video version, but basically, uh, the, you know, the quote or the, the statement from Dario Amodei i- is talking, uh, talking about how there are nine-figure packages from Meta.

And so it says here, I'm just gonna read this paragraph here, the context matters. Sam, Sam Altman has acknowledged that signing bonuses of up to 100 million have been offered to lure top researchers. Meta has hired [00:08:00] away at least one high pro- profile Anthropic employee, uh, Joel Polbac- Pobor, who worked on inference and thinking, and thinking machines now stands at around 140 employees.

So like, I mean, it's these large,

Mikhail: Yes.

Matt: 100 million, nine... That's nine figures. Like, that's, that's nine digits. Um, that's a, that's a big thing. But here's the thing though, like, a- and like Mike and I have had this conversation. Like, Mike and I are running like a small business. It's two of us, okay? We run a small business.

If you gave me $100 million, I'm done. It's over. It's over. And like, that selfish? Maybe. But I mean, think about, think about what's happening here. You come to me and you say, "Matt, I'm gonna give you $100 million." I'd be like, "Awesome." I'm gonna invest part of that. I'm gonna buy a house or something. I'm gonna do...

You know, I'll, I'll make a plan. Buy a car, whatever. I'm not a person that's gonna go and buy like Ferraris and all this stuff. I'm gonna be like, "Sick." And I'm gonna go to the local country club, get a membership, buy a car that runs [00:09:00] for 20 years, get a half-decent place to live, and then live off the interest of my investments 'cause I'm gonna get a money person to manage my 100 million.

I'm done. It's over. It's over for me. Like, w- financial worry is over for me. It's over.

Mikhail: Yes.

Matt: it- it's gone

Mikhail: then, but then you're just working for the heck of it at that point, which is a different kind of working for it. And I will say that I think Mark Zuckerberg in that specific case, or in these specific cases, is kind of pricing that in a little bit. He's actually doing this for two reasons. One is obviously to get the top researcher, but two is to take it away from Anthropic to slow them down. He's try- he's playing this game of like, "We're behind. How do we slow down, not only like c- catch up, but how do we slow down the other And so he's giving these ridiculous salaries knowing that they're ridiculous, and knowing probably what you're saying, Matt, that some of them will just be like, "Well, I'm just gonna work a lot less now," and et cetera, et cetera.

But at least he's slowing these [00:10:00] people down, these, these other companies down. So he's... It, it's a little bit of a dick move maybe, but it is a kind of a smart move in the sense of like if you're really that far behind, you have to think outside the box, and one of those ways is to do this, where he's making it harder for them to hire, because obviously this sets a new baseline it pisses people off.

Dario is obviously coming out as pretty pissed off right here. And he's ma- he's taking away talent, and he's, he's, uh, getting that talent even if at a reduced capacity, because I, I don't-- Like I-- There's people out there and they're, like the, the CEOs are probably the, the main, the main ones, like the Elons of the world and maybe even the like, you know, the, the Zuckerbergs and all that.

Like they already have generational, generational wealth and yet they're still putting in their, you know, 12-hour days for some reason. They're crazy. Like, and that's why they've gotten to that position, because they are pretty crazy.

Matt: the thing though is like I get that, like I almost see this issue as not... I, I understand there's, there's specifics here, which is [00:11:00] why I grabbed some more context for this, for this quote. But I almost feel like this is like a statement on just hiring in general. It's like people are going to chase the bag.

People are going to chase the bag, and it's hard to hear from somebody who's like a multimillionaire, billionaire, yada, yada, whatever, person that is set for life, whomever. It's hard to hear from someone who has a massive salary, "Hey, like, don't you believe in us?" Like, "Shouldn't you wanna, shouldn't you wanna work here?"

And like I understand that there, that, that, that companies have these goals and there's, there's concerns about AI safety and there's all this other stuff. But I mean, a waitress might really like working at a restaurant, but if the other restaurant where- in which the tasks are the same is gonna pay the person five X, then that waitress is likely to move on to the other restaurant.

Like it's just, it's just unfortunately part of it because here's the thing, we need money to survive and all the rest of it. I understand you could absolutely survive off of fifty million, but I may as well have a hundred, [00:12:00] Mike. I may as well have a hundred. In fact, I will take that extra fifty, thank you.

Like there, you know... A- and there's gonna be people out there that hate that, and they're gonna say, "Oh, that's, you know, that's ridiculous," and, and y- y- you know, "You shouldn't, you shouldn't do that," and, "You should take less," and this and that. I'm gonna take the hundred.

Mikhail: Almost

Matt: just gonna do it

Mikhail: Yeah. Almost everyone has their number, and those numbers are ridiculous. And I, I, I do, like, we can talk about two different things here, and I agree with that. Like, there is this, like, idea of him talking to every, every person out there and that, that's, you know, going to work at a company and they should be mission-oriented. Maybe... I, I do think that he's more leaning, like, talking about what we, what we just talked about with the $100 million people, like those ridiculous ones. If we talk about the other side of things, uh, where it's like, you know, everyone should just be happy that they're working for a mission-oriented company, th- that is mostly bullshit.

Like, right now especially, like, how can we be happy b- when you're [00:13:00] obviously just laying people off to lay people off? I think the layoffs have a big impact on people's to be mission-oriented, because one thing to be fired or, or to be, like, let go because of performance reasons. That always sucks, but it's usually, like, a handful of people that get fired like that. A layoff usually indicates that you are not at fault a lot of times, especially it's like if it's a RIF, right? Like, if it's a, if it's just a business decision layoff. So how can you be mission-oriented if there's always a looming business decision that can cut your, your job? That, that, that to me is the, the, the, the severe bullshit of a statement like this if he was making it towards those general, the general public, the general engineer or the general tech worker or whatever, which I don't think he is.

But, like

Matt: Well, no, like the context for this specific statement obviously like, like help, helps, helps it more toward your point, yes. But I, but I, I'm just trying to say that like [00:14:00] s- it's not that crazy that people are enticed by money. And like, I mean, they're having, they're having success. Like Anthropic is having success.

Like it, it's on, it's on the screen again here. It says, "Anthropic's counter, reported, is not to match. Amadei's line, 'We are not willing to compromise our compensation principles, our principles of fairness to respond individually to these offers,' is a bet that culture and equity upside hold the roster together.

The numbers around it are supportive. An 80% retention rate for hires over the last two years and per the reporting, engineers at OpenAI were eight times more likely to leave Anthropic than the reverse, with the DeepMind ratio nearly 11 to

Mikhail: Mm-hmm

Matt: 1." Leave for Anthropic, yes. Yeah, leave for Anthropic. like here's the thing, like there's, there is more to money, yes.

But I... It's not... I mean, of course, of course people, especially individuals, are gonna take the 100 million

Mikhail: Like you'd almost be ha- stupid not to. Like you would almost have to [00:15:00] be really not intelligent not to. Like crazy, you'd have to

Matt: Well, 'cause here, here's the thing, though. I- if you're, if you're one of these researchers, yeah, they're making lots of money. If you're one of these researchers, could any of these researchers, getting some sort of crazy bonus, just quit working right now and be fine for the rest of their lives?

There's gonna be some that are, but there's gonna be many that are not.

Mikhail: Correct

Matt: My, my point is, is that of course large bonuses, uh, are attractive, 'cause it's like, "Hey, here's, here's the amount of money that you're gonna make for your whole life in one, one bucket, and then here's a salary after." Or maybe, "Here's 10 times the amount of money you'd ever make in your entire life, and then also a salary."

Mikhail: Yeah.

Matt: Of course. It's not,

now money is not everything. I get that. I'm not gonna go and take $100 million from some company that's like, "Yeah, by the way, we stab people literally in the back, in the back alley." It's like, well, hold up. What are you talking about?

Mikhail: Like,

Matt: Obviously, it's...

Mikhail: Yeah, we want you

Matt: Yeah, oh, yeah, well, yeah, you're gonna have to, unfortunately, like, I mean, we call it, we call it a, we call it a [00:16:00] light, a light suggestion, but it's actually, like, you're just stabbing people in the back alley.

Like, of course I'm not gonna be, you know, doing that. But this is part of the, this is part of the war of, of tech. They're fighting over talent, and when you're talking about individuals, of course you're going, are going to be enticed by money. Of course. It's not even a question. We've s- we've seen it in sports.

We've seen it with PGA and LIV. LIV offered huge bonuses to switch over from PGA to LIV, and the, the people who switched did not know necessarily what the consequences, how severe the consequences, how long the conse- consequences were gonna be from the PGA for switching to another league. But they see the money, see the, at the time, lesser hours and all the other things that came along with it, even though they were professional golfers making a ton of money in...

Like, generally speaking, obviously in the PGA you have to win and stuff. There's sponsorships and all this other nonsense. But generally speaking, you have to win or, or be in the top 10 to make a, a, [00:17:00] a half-decent amount of money. The point is, though, is, like, even then, even when a lot of these guys are, like, well-known, they're influencers, some of them.

They, they make tons of money. They've have, they have tons of money. Someone else comes along and goes, "You've been doing this for your whole life. Why don't you join us, and I'll give you this big old bunch of money?" Of course that person's gonna leave.

Mikhail: Yep. Like, more a surprise that he's surprised than it is that they did what they did. So I, I don't think there's much more to say on the topic, but like in general, these are big, like these are all human beings. Money's going to be a, a major factor in a lot of decision-making. It has to be

Matt: Ima- imagine, imagine just being right now being like, "You will never need to worry about money again, period." Okay, then you're right, Mike. Like you said that the, you know, there's people like Zuckerberg and whatever that go and they, they put their hours in, but they're working for a mission of some sort, whatever the mission is.

It could just be more money. Maybe they just wanna ha- hit some sort of like big old [00:18:00] money goal for themselves, but they're not worried about, you know, buying that house or if the car breaks down or, y- you know, how many kids they can have or whatever. They're not worried about those domestic issues.

They're, they're done. Like financially, they're set, they're done. It's over for them. That's what I was saying. 100 million for me, it's done. I don't care

But I think that's it. I think that's the web news. what do you think about this p- particular statement? What do you think about just people taking large bonuses versus trying to help a company along with their mission? Let us know in the comments on the various platforms, that's it. That's the web news for this week.

We're signing off.

Mikhail: Goodbye